Puzzles, Not Problems — Arianna Smith

This episode's guest, Arianna Smith, is a licensed professional counselor turned copywriter, messaging strategist, and tarot reader. We used her comfort show, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, as the doorway into a conversation about why business success is never a solo act.

In this episode:

• Why Ari reframes her niche as "the puzzle I never get tired of solving"
• The two-moment timeline of realizing her business truly paid for her life
• Paying off $80,000 in student loans without ever carrying business debt
• What she pays for health insurance as an independent business owner
• Why "do I like this" is the wrong question for business spending — it's "will this ROI"
• Human design, tarot, and why Ari builds her support team around complementary types

Connect with Arianna Smith:
Arianna knows what it's like to build a business that doesn't fit in a box — because hers doesn't either. As a messaging strategist and copywriter, she helps service providers turn what makes them different into words that actually bring in clients. As an IFS Certified Therapist, she works with queer and neurodivergent adults navigating identity and trauma recovery through EMDR, IFS, and tools like tarot and human design. She also offers trauma-informed tarot readings for people facing grief, uncertainty, or big life transitions, and founded Therapist Chillout, a low-key summer networking series for therapists to connect as humans first. Raised in Alaska, now in Denver — and no, she still doesn't need to save that jar.
🌐 Website: https://www.ariannasmith.com
📱 Follow: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arianna-j-smith/ 

If you're a business owner who wants help building your own media engine, subscribe at sensiblewoo.com/subscribe.

This season was produced and edited by Mary Williams through Sensible Woo and Sasquatch Media Grounds, out of Vancouver, WA.

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Welcome to the School of Moxie podcast. I'm your host, Mary Williams. This season, we're talking about one thing: my business pays for my life. We're not talking about side hustles or someday dreams. We're talking about businesses that actually pay for your life, so your rent and your mortgage, your health insurance premium, the whole kit and caboodle. The thing you are not going to get today in this episode, you are not going to hear my guest read their resume at you for 15 minutes. We're skipping the highlight reel and going straight to the good stuff. We're talking about timelines and trade-offs and the money conversations that not enough people are talking about out loud, but we're about to do it here on this show. If you want to know all the details about who this person is and what they do, that's what the show notes are for. Go check them out. Follow their links. Please support their work, because you don't really get to know somebody from just one episode. You get to know them by showing up for their work day after day. That's what they've done for their own communities, and it's what I'm asking you to do for them. All right, let's get into it. Ari, thank you so much for joining me. We are brand new business friends and I'm so glad you're in my network now. I'm so excited. I feel like we could have talked for, like, hours before actually hitting record. I know. We've been chatting for a minute, and I was like, "Wait, I gotta hit record. We're gonna lose something here." you have a comfort show that we're gonna use to dive into our discussion today. we're gonna get to know you and your business and how your brain works through your comfort show, and I'm just gonna encourage everybody that if they really vibe with you to make sure they go to the show notes, because all of your info is there. Your website's there. Your work is amazing. but I wanna start with your comfort show. Do you wanna tell us what we're talking about today? my comfort show, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, which we kinda summed it up, you summed it up with a silly meme, and also it's like once you've seen episode, one episode, you've seen them all, but in the best way. It's like having your favorite meal over and over, that's what I love about it. It's just, it's… And it's also just ridiculous too. I love that the vibe of Brooklyn Nine-Nine is extremely consistent. There's something very comforting about that consistency. You know exactly what you're getting every time you hit play. It's not like they're gonna throw some curve ball at you at some point I mean, they might, but it, like, makes sense for the show. And I love, you know, I love all the chaos. It usually all wraps up tidy Tidy endings are really nice. I know. T- I have a question for you. This is so sidebar. You were not expecting this question. Do you also like reading things like romance fiction? Because the whole point is, like, a tidy, happy ending that gets all wrapped up I do love reading. I am definitely an avid reader, and I definite- my romance novel era was definitely during the pandemic. I can tell you as a librarian, romance fiction has always been like the number one genre, always. It's like the, the largest part of the purchasing budget in any library. It's the largest section in any bookstore, truly. like, like money-wise and, like inventory-wise, it might not look like that on the outside, but it is. when we are going through difficult times like the pandemic, um, right now the world's a little crunchy, so romance is really like having a huge popularity surge because people want satisfying endings. They wanna feel in control over something, and this story makes you feel that. And I'm kind of wondering if Brooklyn Nine-Nine does something like that for your brain too I love that, you know, speaking of romance, like you know who's gonna get together in the end. It's just a matter of when. And so I think part of that unexpectedness is kinda what keeps it engaging is like will they, won't they? Um, will they, won't they? Similar to business. Will they, won't they? But what I, I think I- when I was reflecting on this show and like what I like about it as it relates to business is, and maybe how my brain works, is everyone just gets to be themselves on that show. And in them being their like weird-ass selves, it helps the tidy ending happen. Like it helps them solve the crime, like it helps. Even, um, oh my gosh, I forgot. It's, I wanna say Chelsea. I don't know if that's her name or the actress's name, but she's like the one that always has like the mirror and is, I don't… Yeah, I need, I should have brushed up on this a little bit. Um, but yeah, even her, even her, like she is like completely, quote-unquote,"useless" to the team, but brings it together and makes things happen Yeah, I would argue like those, like sometimes things are considered useless, but like even the smallest piece that needs to complete the whole thing is arguably not useless. No, no, not at all. No She's glue. Like she is, in Oh, writing terms, absolutely glue Do you feel like Brooklyn Nine-Nine reveals something about your values, maybe your leadership style, brand, or your approach to business? questions. yeah. I'm like chaos, um, would describe Hear, hear. We're both drinking coffee 'cause it's the morning when we're recording. We should have champagne. Cheers. what I think is like kind of misunderstood or maybe downplayed in business is the interconnectedness between other people. I know we're joking about like p- certain people being useless or not, I think in business, even if you are a solo business owner, even if you are holding down your own fort, like you can't do it without other people. besides the chaos theme and the humor theme, like you have to just fucking laugh, cause in my career, I have had some very, like just previous career have very weird experiences, but also the realization of like you can't do it on your own. But you also have to be who you are in order to solve the, solve the puzzle, figure out the crime, catch the bad Yes. Oh, that's so good. I mean, the crime theme alone is very apropos. I always tell people, I'm like, "I'm the chief problem solver. That's all I do. I just solve problems." Like, it kind of doesn't matter what the business is, I'm just solving problems. That's all I do Yeah. I actually, when I was doing an, a messaging workshop with, um, some therapists, you know, that like in marketing speak, it's this idea of like problem, like what problem are you solving? And you know, us like softy helpers, we don't wanna see people as problems, although we are solving problems. So I sometimes like to look at it as puzzles or what, like what puzzles are you solving for people, or what patterns are you helping shift, or even like what paradox are you helping them be with? Yeah. Oh, that's good. Oh, that's like such a subtle shift, like mindset shift, but it's more, it's richer. There's more nuance in it. I like that Well, someone asked me also, like,"Okay, how do you choose what your niche is?" And I was like, "What puzzle do you never get tired of solving? Like, what problem do you ev- never get tired of solving?" You know? Girl, that is so good. Listen, I the episode is done. We're done now. I know. I have the mind of like, a hyperactive bor- border collie. So I'm like one of those people that I'm like, "I need a chew toy. I need something to do." And so it's like, I don't know about you, but like, I think part of going into business is because I was like, "I never wanna be bored." Same. Same I, and so you get to basically choose what puzzles are you gonna solve for folks, and how are you gonna market that? How are you gonna do that? How are you gonna deliver that? And puzzles are boring on your own Everyone knows the feeling of putting a puzzle piece, like the final puzzle piece into When they like click into place and you're like, "Aha." And there's always at least one puzzle piece in every single puzzle where you're like,"There is no fucking way that piece goes in that spot," and yet it does. That is exa- It does. Well, I mean, this is like a theme of like a satisfying ending, Mm-hmm Like p- like, and like a visual reminder like, "Oh, it's done." Like, it's complete and then you can move on to the next thing. Completion is so satisfying. Oh my God, so satisfying. Well, speaking of completions, like I think a lot of people are looking for a completion point, which is why, uh, all of you were invited into this season of the podcast because one of the big milestone/completion points is, does my business pay for my life? And all of you I'm interviewing genuinely do. You answered some hard, hard questions on the casting call form because I wanted to talk with more people who are like me, and it's not always easy, but your business really does pay for your life. You're not being bankrolled by like a secondary income in the house or anything like that. So I'm wondering for you, like at what point did you realize that your business was indeed paying for your life? Like did it take a long time to get there? So there was kind of two moments. I, the first moment was maybe about a year… So I started my business, which started as a private practice, um, 'cause I'm a licensed professional counselor, when maybe like 2017, '16. And then I did, this is, yeah, like this is not how everyone has to do it, but I am not for, like, small moves. So I saved up, um, I was like, "I gotta get out of my fucking job." I actually recently wrote a newsletter about this, around how I got trouble, like, got in trouble at my job because I just was not performing socialness as was expected of me. I wasn't being part of the clique. Um, and it, it was like, so I was just talking about, um, yeah, just like being a misfit and being all of that. So I was like, "All right, I'm getting the fuck out of here." So I saved up six months of income, and then I was in the process of moving to a new city, and I, which I did believe would do better. I serve queer folks, and so it was a city with a bigger queer population. I'm like, "Okay, I think my city is gonna, is gonna do better here." And I gave myself six months. And I was maybe full in about four, and then I was like, "Oh, okay. This is happening." And then I think it was about year two after that where I was like, "Oh, this is just not a flu- this isn't a fluke, like I'm actually sustaining it." But then the real shit, like the real like holy shit was, two years in, and then I paid off one set of my student loans, and then, like the smaller amount. And then the third time was when I actually was able to put a down payment on a condo and buy a car, used car, cash, and then take a two-month sabbatical. Ooh! And then, and then I was like,"Okay, I'm doing this." Um, and then, uh, last year I paid off all my student loans, like all of them. So I had like, Congratulations. Oh my God, I had like $80,000 worth of student loans, and I mean, it's like the millennial curse. but part of that is I was just like, I could stay and work in public service for 10 years and maybe get them forgiven, but I was like, " I am going to pay this down. I am not gonna have student loans anymore." So I think it's been kind of gradual stepping stones, but I think, that just kind of built my confidence more and more of like, "Okay, I got this." What else changed for you? Like, obviously there's a confidence build. There's also, like, a budget thing that changes, which is real nice, Mm-hmm. because you're not paying on all these loans. But, like, what else changes for you when you realize that your business has become responsible for supporting your whole life? I mean, what doesn't change? The, the best way I could, the tidiest way I could sum this up, which is you have t- your life has to match what your business is making. So if you have a slow month or a slow year or something, like, you don't just like, it doesn't just get to be, "Oops." you have to make changes around that. If you… You know, I know you have a question about health insurance, but you have to think about, okay, you know, kinda where I'm at now, I, I just turned 41, and so now I'm like, "Okay, student loans are taken care of. I n- really need to set myself up for retirement, and also just anticipate what are my healthcare changes gonna be as I age." it's, it's a lot of pressure. It really is. And also, I do well under pressure sometimes, I guess. I don't know. I think you have to have a degree of being under pressure in order to be, to be motivated to, like, do it yourself, you know? I would totally agree. I think those of us who really jump into entrepreneurship and really stick with it, we are weirdos in this world 'cause we're like, "You know what sounds fun today? I think having a little mild, like, abject terror stalking me throughout the day sounds like a great day." You're like, "I don't know how to solve this." But, but I, but I do love that you point out that with different seasons of revenue flow, that you have to change your life. And I think that one of the harder things, and you can tell me if you think this is true from your observations too, but I think one of the harder things for a lot of entrepreneurs who are, like, have in the moment, you know, you're in, like, the mastermind group and someone's like,"Oh, it's so hard," and it's like, well, because you're being asked to change based on factors that you can't control. And so you figure out, well, I can control this over here. I'm gonna surf the wa- it's like how you surf the wave better. Mm-hmm. declare what it is, which is really frustrating Yeah, so you have to, like, figure out a system that works for you to live in the uncertainty and live in the scarcity, and I, I think you kinda have to have your, figure out your comfort for oh shit moments. and I think it's higher and lower for other people. I think you were talking about, like, another guest coming on, you know, that I think probably has, like, a lower tolerance for like, those oh shit moments than me. and so that I think is part of it too Well, you brought up health insurance, and this is my favorite question for all of y'all, and I'm asking everybody because I have an extreme morbid curiosity 'cause I wanna feel better about my health insurance premium bill. Yeah and change a month for a silver plan in Washington State with Blue Cross. Um, what do you pay for health insurance as an independent person who provides that for yourself? I just also hate that you even have to ask this question, like any other pod- like a podcast in the rest of the world. Um, so I have al- the, the approach that I have always taken, because I've been fairly, I'm not gonna say healthy, I'm gonna say able-bodied, um, is because it-- so I have always kinda taken a, like the cheapest as possible approach, and then paying out of pocket for like really good providers and really good care, which is not always accessible to everyone, but that's just been where I've been at. So right now I think my insurance is like $400 a month, which is pretty low. but also if you look at, you know, what I'm paying out of pocket for other things, it might be higher. So if I probably wanted to have a plan that covered those other things, it'd probably be in the six, $700 range. When your business pays for you, like, you have to have it be emotionally and physically sustainable. Because when you were asking this question around health insurance, I was like, "I don't think that's the real question." The real question is, like, how do you pay for PTO and illness and FMLA? like that's-- I see that as the real expense Yeah that, you know, people don't think about. And, I hate to say that, like, I have probably only canceled therapy sessions, like, maybe twice in my life Yeah. Yeah I was just like, "I can do this." Like, I, like, I can't… You know, I don't get to take a sick day, you Yes. I really feel like for people… I see a lot of people hesitate on the edge of their business being capable of paying for their life. And this came up in the conversation with Rachel Allen, and we were both pontificating on, like, the responsibility that you feel with the realization that there are no more excuses, that I am capable of doing whatever the fuck I decide I'm gonna do. I can pay for it. I now am responsible to make a decision based on that. And when you have the ability to pay for everything, whether it's health insurance or PTO or whatnot, it changes how you show up in the world. Mm-hmm. And the things that you bullshit around, you're just like, I… Like, once you see it, you cannot unsee it kind of thing. Like, "Oh, I can't, I can't tolerate this anymore. Like, I, I can't be in that room anymore." Or it's gonna ch- it's going to guaranteed change your business friend groups, the memberships that you choose to pay for, like, everything. And I think that is really hard for a lot of people because, as a therapist, I think you'll laugh because I'm always asking people, I'm like, "Is this a therapy thing or a business thing?" You know, I say if you wanna start a business, just find a therapist shortly after that'cause it brings up so much stuff. I mean, even though right now my business is not as much therapy, I've shifted, but it is, like you have to have it be sustainable for you financially, but then y- maybe you're earning an amount of money, but it's not sustainable for you physically, and that's kinda what happened to me, and a lot of clinicians during the pandemic as well Well, I think this is interesting because it sounds like in the past you worked a lot. No surprise. Do you feel like… I mean, you've had a shift at this point. Do you feel like you work more than some of your peers? I don't know because do I have worse boundaries? Probably, but I don't know. I mean, I think I am around a lot of hardworking people, but I think what's different is working hard and earning income isn't the same. So, and I think that's what I realized is, like, the, the amount of effort that you put into something doesn't mean you're gonna make money from it. Because if I, if… I mean, we were just talking about tarot. Like, that is probably the most emotionally taxing work is to be kinda channeling and, like, like, basically that. and that's doesn't always create the kinda income that you need. Like, that's not sustainable, you know? Like, there's no way that I could do 10 tarot readings a day in o- You know, like, that's, there's just, like, a business model… That's what I'm trying to say in my chaotic way is that when you are, your business pays for your life, you don't always get to have your dream business ' cause right, my dream business would be, like, just fucking reading tarot all the time. Yeah. Right? Yours too. Would yours be astrology or, like, what would your be? Oh, oh, I mean, I, I like to mix all the modalities. So I mix human design with astrology and tarot, and then, you know, I'm half Taiwanese, so I've really been trying to, like, get back into Chinese astrology, And even, like, a little bit of Vedic, too. I've been curious on that. And, and numerology, I'm obsessed with numerology. And, like, when you mesh them together, you see where they all intersect, and you get such a compounded picture of yourself. Like, you just get more self-awareness. It gives you time to reflect on something.'Cause self-reflection is hard when you don't have an anchor point, and, and I do see that happen with, um, all of us in our business systems. I think we're looking for, like, some better reflection so we can make a better decision on the back end of that. And, and I, that's why I think I always have loved the metaphysical arts, because they give you a system of something. I mean, okay, so, like, over on LinkedIn, they say that the, um, Myers-Briggs is the, like, the business astrology or whatever. Yeah. And it's people are like, "What's your MBTI?" Or, you know, and Enneagram's become a little more, like, hip over there, too. Um, but people are looking for an anchor point so you have something to, like, make meaning out of why you keep having these recurring patterns. Yeah and, and whether it's astrology or not, I, I don't know. But I do know after being a reader for so long, I'm like, "Some of this shit ain't a coincidence." Well, and s- I didn't know you were into human design 'cause I love it. Do you know what your type I am. I am an emotional-- I'm a 6/3 emotional manifestor Oh, you're a manifestor. Oh I'm a, I'm, I'm a forceful, weird little baby. Yeah. What are you? I am a 5/1 sacral generator. I love this. yeah, so 5/1s, we're all about, like… we're all about solving shit in weird ways, Yes. Yes. No, I'm all about, like, experimenting in front of everybody and making a mess and being like, "Look what I learned so you don't have to do it that way." I have, like, a list of things for us to rant about, but one of the things that is not a rant but an observation is I'm always really curious of the human design of the people, the business coaches that are teaching me, Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm because I can't operate like a mangen, like a manifesting generator. I can't. And so, I mean, that's why I take medication. And so that is like … So I've noticed when I am looking for, like, a good mentor or for someone to, like, to teach me, I'm usually looking for, like, specific… Like Jessica, who you have, she's a generator, right? So I'm like, there's the smooth, steady, methodical process. So, like, for her, I'm like, this is how I'm gonna sustain things. But then, um, my former business coach, Megan Meganson, was a projector, and they are just… I think I could say this. Like, they are just the-- They are experts at doing the most with the minimal amount of effort, right? And they just kind of come in and, like, in five minutes, like, just tell you what the fuck's happening, right? So I have been really intentional about choosing my support based on human design and what I need in that moment. Um, mangens, I would say they're great for, like, skipping steps. They're really great for, like… really good ideators because they are the only natural multitaskers. Because they're s- curious, and their brains can hook onto, like, eleventy billion things at the same time if they l- if they let themselves. But they can get real squirrely real fast without some systems. Like, they need systems. And so I, I, I usually find whenever I have a, a mani-gen in my world, I'm, I'm like, "What are your systems? How are you grounding yourself?" Like, you have to embrace the generator side, and they us- uh, I won't say they usually, I don't wanna be, like, a blanket term here. But it… I find that a lot of them are like, "The manifestor side of me," and I'm like, "No, no. You're still a generator." Yeah. wheels, like you gotta go off what, how your wheels run, which is like a generator. What do you see as like the manifestors, like what are, what do you… Like, if folks are thinking about who they should hire based on what… I've never hi- I've never had a manifestor like support me or anything, so I'm like, what are their, what are your strengths? manifestors are the only type that are built to initiate, so we're, we don't have to wait. Um, the world is honestly built for generators and projectors and so forth because, you know, your goal is to respond or to be invited, and I have told my clients in the past, like, not to feel like, "Oh, I'm just s- waiting around like a sitting duck." It's like, "No, no, you have a lot of things you need to do." Nobody can respond to you or invite you if you don't share your work with the world. So you have a… Like, marketing was built for you. And as a manifestor, I can get a creative urge. It feels like channeling when you're reading, and only bigger, like way bigger. And then I'm just like, "I absolutely have to do this thing." It's how this studio here came to be was I was like, it was a creative urge. It was like, I literally feel like I'm gonna crawl out of my skin if I don't get the keys to a physical place. Like, I have to do it. If I don't do it, I am g- I'm like,"Ugh," like I'm, I'm gonna throw up if I don't do this right now. And, and so I have been driven by those urges throughout life. And now that I have the studio, you know, I am also on a journey like everyone else in realizing, like, where the strengths are, and I'm starting to sign talent that I manage in the studio. And I'm finding that as a manifestor, that is working so, so well because I'm able to initiate things that they, who are all generators at this point,'cause I, I do run their charts, they, um, don't have the ability to do that. And I, I see things, like I've, I've realized that my, my habit of tracking trends and speaking on futures in the market of, like, marketing and entrepreneurship, I'm like, "Oh, this is a very manifestor thing to do." And so I, I will, you know, see something for that talent or the client and like,"You really should do blah, blah, blah," and then I will help them push it out into the world, because they would normally have to wait, but I don't have to wait, so I'll do it for them. And yeah. And I'm That's a yeah, brilliant pairing And it's taken me 46 years to figure it out. And I don't think, I think I've just barely touched the doorknob of the door that is opening around that. I think there's so many more things around that, but I never thought we would dive into human design, but I think I am hearing it's a big part of how we sustain and think about our businesses, because what you're describing is, it's kinda like what we talked about before, is interconnectedness. And part of what's gonna make your business sustainable is the interconnectedness with the generators that-- And then the generators are like, "Where can I show up?" And that kinda relates to, I mean, how I've made my business sustainable is really planning less, Yeah always being on this other side, if I am available to respond, it helps me, like, so much with my business, and that's been a big-- That's, like, years and years of trust of, okay, it's slow right now, but I just have to wait, and then when I wait, things will go. There's been multiple times where it's quiet, it's quiet, it's quiet, and then someone's like, "I need you to do this now." And it's like a $10,000, $12,000 project. And because I was available and not filling up my schedule with, like, BS, I was like, "Yes, let's start next week," and, "Yes, I can devote my time to this," you know? Um, so now I'm in this place where I'm like, how do I match demand with being able to respond? I kind of, you know, did some deeper messaging work on my business this year, and it, like, really responded well, and now I'm booking into, like, September, and, like, people reach out and they… They're like you. They're like, "I don't wanna wait." So that's kind of the way I'm sitting with now as a business owner is, like, and maybe this is not the case for manifestors, but as a generator, I'm like, I'm always thinking about who I'm serving and who I'm responding to, and how can I respond in that moment and protect my boundaries and also help their business help my business? Well, what's so interesting, I'm gonna weave this back in, 'cause one of the questions I had for all of y'all on this season was, what's easier now that your business pays for your life? And I would argue that because you work toward the mi- towards the milestone of your business paying for your life, that it allows you to operate fully in your full generator expression to respond without the, that, like, anxiousness of like, "Oh, shit, I gotta pay my bills." You know? I think a lot of people live in that space of, "Oh, shit, I gotta pay my bills." Yeah Um, and it, it, it… Or it's not sustainable, um, or it's because their, um, you know, their, their largest investor is, say, their spouse, so then their spouse is, like, asking them questions 'cause they wanna know the return on their investment. I've seen this so many times in my coaching clients over the years, where they come to an appointment or to a mastermind group, and they're like,"Well, my husband says blah, blah, blah." And I'm like, "Are you gonna make a partnership out of your business?" And they don't realize that they have taken on an investor who wants the, to know about the ROI that they have invested in. And, and, and I think when your business pays for your life, the desire to operate fully as a generator, which you're doing, is so much harder to do. It's not that it's not possible, but, like, there are some steps that still need to happen in order to allow yourself to have that freedom to do it, because financial freedom is also creative freedom. Oh my gosh, and time freedom too. And that's, you know, that's-- I think there was a question you asked a while back that I didn't, that I thought about responding or not, but there's been ti- like, what-- Like, there's been times, and this is kind of my choice now, where I really sit with what currency is valuable to me right now. And of course, money is important'cause we live in this society. But once you reach this per- certain point in your business and you get… I think you get to decide, like, what's the most valuable currency to me right now, and it could be time, it could be freedom, it could be autonomy. And ultimately, I think when you know what that currency is, then you can actually know what you're working towards and what you're building towards, at least as, like, a generator. Because if I'm just going for-- to make money, to have money going in and out of my bank account, that doesn't motivate me the same way that it did before. I mean, it does, don't get me wrong. Like, but only because we are, like, having conversations around health insurance and retirement. Like, it only motivates me because I'm just like, "Okay," like, "maybe I'll be better set up in the future." This is another thing also, I, a- and this may not be in your space as much, but just my, quote-unquote, "business upbringing" has been around a lot of other therapists, and then I've shifted into mostly copywriting and messaging and dabbled in tarot. And so in the kinda spiritual entrepreneur space and, like, the therapist space, it's like you kind of are shamed for wanting to make money That, oh, girl, we could do a whole season on that alone. It is such a huge problem. and also you see it also in, um, artistic creative spaces where it's, like, shameful to take money, or people where the hold onto the lack of financial freedom as, like, a credential, like a badge of honor. Like, I now meet the requirements of belonging to this, you know, population of, of individuals who share an identity, and so I will share that identity too. And, um, I think it's really harmful. Like, yes, nobody likes capitalism. Like, but we do live in a society that still functions where, you know, money is a currency and, you know, everyone has to pay their bills. And, and I think that there is a way to find, peace through that. And, um, and it requires learning the system and playing the system. the game Yeah. Like, I went to art school, and I, I had a painting class, and we had, like, a final project, and there was this kid who, like, never came to class. And he showed up finally on the last day to get, you know, to turn in his work and get his grade, and he had a white primed canvas with, like, one red stripe down the middle. And we were-- And so you have to, you know, do all of your, like, critiques for each other and sit and have a conversation about it. And, the professor was like, "Tell me about your work." And he goes into this bullshit answer about how minimalism this, and I thought about that.

And everyone's like: 33:37

But it, you haven't been here. Everybody knows you haven't been here. You clearly haven't done the work. And it's like, and for all the bullshitting that you're doing right now, you look like you just rolled out of bed. I think you're still drunk and high from last night, and you, like, put fresh paint down on your canvas. Like, it's literally still wet, cause we were painting in oil, and it takes a while for that to dry. And, and so it's like you can tell if something's fresh or not. And I feel like, and, and I feel like a lot of our entrepreneurs show up in the space like this, and our painting professor was like, "This is a great lesson time for everybody." And he was like, "You're not wrong about, like, breaking the rules or finding, like, a new creative expression and an avenue or whatever." But he was like, "Everything is derivative." And so, Even the canvas and the stretcher that you've built is derivative. Like, it… Somebody made a f- a system, a formula to do that in the past, and then you learned how to do it. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to paint on this thing today." And, and so he was like, "You have to learn w- the, the, the masters. You have to learn this, the previous method before you can break it apart." And, you know, and because this kid hadn't come to class, he hadn't also studied Picasso the way we had. And if you look at Picasso's early work, it's, it's all classic, and then he breaks it apart into cubism. And it's like he wouldn't know to create cubism and decide he wanted to creatively do that and experiment with it if he hadn't learned the, the, the, the previous way. And, and I think, like, so many of our business people struggle with that, and it shows up in things like… So then, then we are like, "Shiny object, human design," and they're like, "I'm gonna solve all my problems by knowing my human design type." And it's like, but you still didn't figure out the human part Peng That's m- that's my manifester hot mic is your mic drop. I'm just like, okay, and, and. what your story actually highlights is a newsletter that went viral on your newsletter and in my brain, um, which I really hope you make it into a blog'cause I wanted to share it with everyone. Um, but in it, you know, what-- uh, like based on this story, it makes me think of what you've said, uh, around how AI is kind of exposing mediocrity. And so in the story of this guy that just rolled up and kind of did this painting, you know, in 2020, that was online courses, Oh, totally right? And it was like, here's this, like if, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck… uh, so that, like the-- but if you are playing the game right, like, and you're, you talked about, um, these women in your last newsletter that like they could, if, they could have that painting out and just be like, "Look at what I did," you Yeah I think it highlights that- When-- This is a tangent, but I'm just gonna go there, because one of my rants is that people moralize business choices and say,"Well, you don't believe in yourself. You don't value yourself. You're not ready to invest in yourself." And I'm like, " Bitch, I'm investing in my health insurance right now." Yes. Oh, preach. Like, or I'm just… Like I, I, you know, and I think that's really kind of a core theme in all of these episodes or what you kinda wanted to get to is you don't get to evaluate business investments based on do I like this? Will I w- not like this? It's like, is this actually going to give me an ROI? And so as a result, I've never gone into debt for any business purchases. Um, I've done payment plans, but like never like had to pay off debt for anything, you know? And I think that when you put your livelihood on the line like that, you also have higher expectations of who you're paying as well. And I think that also ripples down of hopefully how I deliver my work, because I'm like, "Okay, this is your livelihood, so I'm gonna really meet you with these expectations and the, this quality too." This isn't just like hobby money that we're fl- fl- like throwing around. Yeah. Oh, that's so powerful. Well, speaking of money and where it goes, do you have a bill that you're weirdly proud to pay? I do, speaking of interconnectedness, I, I like paying the people that I hire. I like paying my, um, my admin, I like paying my accountant and my CPA. Like, I, I like paying other people, um, like pe- like my coaches, like membership communities. So I like when my money goes directly to other people. I've always been someone that, you know, I'm, I'm like, let me do a GoFundMe over giving to a charity or a nonprofit. Not that one is better or the other, but there's just something about that direct transmission that's really meaningful to me. And then, God, paying off my student loans. I had those for 20 years, right? Like, hanging over, like, paying the very last of my student loans, so that was a really, really exciting bill to pay Oh, that is a good one. Do you feel like there's a business expense that nobody warned you about? I mean, taxes. Like, and speaking of like explaining your business to other people, whenever you explain it to non-business owners, they're like, "Why are you putting so much aside in taxes?" I also think software can really creep up. that's becoming more and more, I think, of an unexpected expense, especially with like 2020 and like all these, um, you know, things making money from like, like Zoom and all of that Yeah. Everything's become a subscription. All right, this is gonna be one of the last questions that we go through. Um, I've been asking everybody this one. If your business suddenly lost 50% of its revenue tomorrow, what's the first thing you would do? Hmm. I love this question. feel like, you know, it's a, it's almost like a therapeutic question in a way, 'cause it made me sit with like what would have happened. So that did actually happen to me. Um, so during the pandemic everything switched from like in-person to virtual, I would say 75% of my caseload canceled, and I was like looking at two weeks of like no income. I was just like, "I'm gonna have to like take my dog and like Mad Max it up to Alaska to like stay with my family." You know, like I thought like the world was gonna end. I had… Actually, I'm gonna shout out Jane Carter. She's a wonderful business coach. I was working with her at the time, and she's also a therapist, and she talked me down, which is why we can't do it alone. And eventually things evened out, and so that was kind of my baseline for like oh shit moments. so now theoretically-- And then I've also had dips. I think we all felt a dip in 2025. And like I'm going on vacation next month in July, will be making half of what I normally do, so I don't think this like if you lost 50% of your income is the right… I mean, it is a great question, but it opens up of like how do you make it so that you get paid full-time even when you're not working full-time? if I suddenly lost like, let's say, a, you know, like a, a big chunk of money, I wouldn't panic, and I wouldn't be reactive. I would-- That would be the first thing I would do, and then I'd come up with a plan Poking like a true therapist. I love it I wouldn't, I mean, I wouldn't panic because at this point, I'm not saying this is the case for everyone, but for me, I have engineered my finances that if I stopped making any money today, I would be okay for about six months and, beyond my emergency savings, because that's like, like, so I kinda have my emergency savings for my business, and that is specifically engineered so that I don't panic and do something that actually could work- put me in a worse position Yeah. I feel like a lot of people do that. I don't know that we're entirely out of those woods right now. Um, yeah. Yeah. I've, I've been working with a lot of people who have been still relying on data from, like, COVID years, 2020 through about '22, and, all of that data… When we were in it, I remember looking at it thinking, "Oh, shit, this is gonna be outlier data." Oh, around that, the, uh, like around Yeah, because people ha- were at home and they had s- government stimulus checks and Oh yeah, my student loans were on pause. I wasn't traveling, I wasn't paying for office rent. Like, I w- yeah. And so, like the, the incestuous, uh, income, train that was going around, people were just buying all kinds of things and, um, and it wasn't really real. I know. I appreciate you saying that because I think a lot of people started their business in 2020, 2021, and have gotten this sense of like, "I'm doing something wrong." And this goes back to kind of what, you know, we could just have an episode ranting. I think really what keeps the business going is actually quite unsexy, Yes. I, I totally agree. it's usually time, and also privilege, right? We didn't get a lot into that, but l- privilege plays a huge role in… Well, you d- you talked about that in your newsletter, but, plays a huge role. Like, here-- And I think also when I'm, like, talking about, like, how I'm able to do this, like, it's not like, you know, I, I have to think back to, like, what my parents did in order to allow me to go to college to do this, right? And what their parents did. So sometimes I think how successful your business is is, like, based on generational patterns in a way. Not always, but Mm-hmm. that-- Do you see that as I do too, and I see that the people who do the humaning personal offline work are usually the ones who build a stronger resiliency pattern, and then they show up in the business container for the actual business coaching, and they solve problems completely differently. Hmm. Like, they're, they are, they are, they, they are so much more efficient. They get to the root of the issue faster, and people are like, "Oh, she-- how'd she do that?" You know? And it's like, she went to see her therapist. Right? Or, I mean, I have to, I have to give a shout-out to my mom because I grew up in rural Alaska, and my dad was gone working two weeks out of the month, like every, um… Would be gone two weeks at a time, and she was raising little kids by herself, and we'd lose power, we'd get snowed in. I mean, it's all on you. Like, no one's… Mm-mm. you. And, and I think that when I think about the moment of-- When I think of those moments of, like, it's all on me, um, I think of my mom and, Yeah. s- snowplowing out of, like, keeping us safe during power outages and stuff. And so that's always, like, you figure it out. Like, figure it out if you have to, you know? And I saw also… And, and, you know, she was married to sh- was married to my dad, so it wasn't a matter of this, like, you can only do it if you're not partnered. It was just that you can rely on yourself, and you can do things and be connected, and you can take care of yourself Yeah. Yeah. I think it's too, I, like I have a one, one half of my parental units is an immigrant, and I think I see this in other households with people where they're immigrant families or, um, lived in rural areas like you're describing. But there is this, um, I think the behavior is modeled like, "Well, I've gotta figure it out," and so you do. Yeah. And but also you can't do it on your own. Like, when you live… own. Yeah that's the, that, I mean, that comes full circle to Brooklyn Nine-Nine, is just like it's just like you, you, you get to be your own person. You get to be out on the street, you know, eating the street, but you have to be connected to other people in order to make the greater picture happen Yeah, that is the community. I think that's the community that we all search for and, um, I think that more of these conversations are starting to happen where people are realizing, like, "Oh, I get a chance to question the community that I'm connected to now? Is that the right one?" And Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And if it's not, you have a lot of personal power to change that picture. you have one, if not. Like, you have your community and if not, come to the, Yeah. the Dojo. This Exactly. I do. Thank you for selling my own product, Ari. This has all just been, uh, sa- like… Best webinar on the planet. Solve your problems, pay your health insurance, pay off your student bills because of Because of my little tiny studio membership. Yep. Yep. That's what the influencers would say it is what they would say. It's so funny. Oh, my God. Well, before we finish today, I'm asking everybody to complete a Mad Lib sentence, and the sentence is, "My business pays for my life, and that means," fill in the blank Oh, I had to write this down'cause I'm not a Mad Libs person. Um, I'd be like, "It pays for my life, and?" And that means I don't know. Like, I'm winging it. Um, but my official answer was my final answer was, um, I'm fully responsible for my choices and their consequences Oh, that's so good. I mean, it just underscores everything that we talked about too. Thank you so much for giving me all your wisdom, and everybody else, I'm so glad people get to know you. All of your info, I'll remind everybody, is in the episode notes for this episode, whether you're listening to it on audio or watching it on YouTube. Go and click on Ari's links and get to know her. You're amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you, Mary. This was amazing. We got paid to do this. Our business paid us to do this. Isn't that fucking amazing? awesome. It's awesome. Thank you so much That's it for this episode of the School of Moxie podcast. This season was produced and edited by me, Mary Williams, through Sensible Woo and now Sasquatch Media Grounds out of Vancouver, Washington. If you're a business owner and you want help building your own media engine, maybe it's your podcast, your YouTube channel, your content, the whole visibility machine, come and subscribe to my emails at sensiblewoo.com/subscribe. I'll show you how it's done, and I'll hook you up with the good stuff. See you on the inside