Plan B Isn't Failure — Eunice Brownlee

Eunice Brownlee is a narrative strategist who's spent years running her business full-time and location-independent, all while solo-parenting her daughter. Her comfort movie, The Holiday, sets up a conversation about daring to imagine — and build — a wildly different life.

In this episode:

• Why Eunice pushes back on the advice that "Plan B" work distracts from your real goals
• What it's actually like to run a business with no fixed address — including invoicing clients mid-train-ride
• Living out of a storage unit and cutting expenses down to two fixed monthly bills
• What healthcare costs outside the US system, and why she pays for travel insurance instead
• Why "when business is good, people stop doing the thing that brought them business" is the trap to watch for

Connect with Eunice Brownlee:
Eunice Brownlee is a speaker coach, storyteller, and strategist who helps leaders turn lived experiences into lasting impact. A longtime writer and activist, she knows firsthand that storytelling isn’t just catharsis; it’s strategy that, when done well, is good business.
 🌐 Website: http://eunicebrownlee.com
📱 Follow: http://instagram.com/eunicebrownlee 

If you're a business owner who wants help building your own media engine, subscribe at sensiblewoo.com/subscribe.

This season was produced and edited by Mary Williams through Sensible Woo and Sasquatch Media Grounds, out of Vancouver, WA.

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

0:00

Welcome to the School of Moxie podcast. I'm your host, Mary Williams. This season, we're talking about one thing: my business pays for my life. We're not talking about side hustles or someday dreams. We're talking about businesses that actually pay for your life, so your rent and your mortgage, your health insurance premium, the whole kit and caboodle. The thing you are not going to get today in this episode, you are not going to hear my guest read their resume at you for 15 minutes. We are skipping the highlight reel and going straight to the good stuff. We're talking about timelines and trade-offs and the money conversations that not enough people are talking about out loud, but we're about to do it here on this show. If you want to know all the details about who this person is and what they do, that's what the show notes are for. Go check them out. Follow their links. Please support their work because you don't really get to know somebody from just one episode. You get to know them by showing up for their work day after day. That's what they've done for their own communities, and it's what I'm asking you to do for them. All right, let's get into it. Eunice, I am so excited you're here with me today. You were on season one of this podcast with me. You've become such an amazing friend in my life. And, um, we tried to record this in person like a few months ago, and I asked you to re-record because we were so deliriously tired, and we were tired entrepreneurs on that call, and, um, there was no structure to the conversation, and nobody should be forced to sit through like 90 minutes of that. Well, you know the drill around here. We talk about TV and movies, and we use it as a gateway to talk about our businesses, 'cause, you know, my weirdo brain is like, "Everything's a business story." And you humored The Last of Us in Season 1, and we had an incredible episode that season, which, um, we talked about coercive control, and had no idea when I released it in the schedule that it was Domestic Violence Awareness Month. And I know both of us got a lot of private messages from people, and, like, the metrics on that episode are still incredible. So you're my safe space to talk about difficult things. And, um, we're gonna talk about fun things today. Everyone who's a guest this season, including you, can legitimately say, "My business pays for my life," even when you think you're not doing it well or maybe you're not making all the money you want or anything. Um, I'm sure you and I will get into that because we're both going through rocky economic times right now. Um, but we're gonna start with your comfort show or your comfort movie. The first time we recorded, I'm just gonna let everybody know, the first time we recorded, we talked about the Gilmore Girls. I might release snippets of that later, 'cause some of it was cute. But you told me just now that you wanna change what title you're talking about in this episode, which is so perfect because you also watch a lot of TV and movies like I do. We're both chronically online. And I wanna know, for this episode, to talk about your business, what is the title that you have chosen? Okay, so this is in like my top five comfort, comfort movies. Maybe like top two is The Holiday with, um, Kate Winslet and Cameron Diaz and Jack Black. Oh my God, that movie is… And that Yeah, the that Jude guy I love it. Um, that movie is so, that movie is so amazing. It's, ugh, that movie is really a comfort movie. I, I wanna live in Kate Winslet's house in England in that movie. Like, it's everything I've ever wanted I live in a similar-ish house in Wales back in the fall. Oh, that's It wasn't quite that cozy, but it, I did, I did get to feel a little bit… And actually the place in France was a little bit cottage-esque as well. I did get to feel a little bit of that Oh, God, I'm so jealous. Um, all right, so this is your comfort movie. I wanna know what keeps bringing you back to it. Like, do you feel that this story reveals something about your values, your leadership style, your brand, or maybe your approach to business? Um, I think that it reveals a lot. So I come back to it a lot because first of all, it's just a really good story. And because this is what I do for work, I, I am a storyteller and, um, I love to break down why a story works. And I realized when I started my weekly newsletter, um, almost a year ago now, that I've been doing this for like 20 some years 'cause my ex-husband was a screenwriter or wanted to be a screenwriter. And so we went to the movies all the time and we were always breaking down like, "Why did this film work? Why did that film work?" but The Holiday, so The Holiday is one of those movies that the reason I think that it resonates with me is because, A, there's two women as the leads, which you don't generally see. Like it's a rom-com, but it's also like they're both the lead actresses Yeah movie, which you don't see very often. And then the second thing is that both of these women are… find themselves in a position where life is just kinda stuck. they're both having, dealing with this like, um, Amanda's breaking up with her boyfriend 'cause she found him cheating on her and, and Iris is, uh, has this whole unrequited love line with her boss, I think it's her Yeah but like a colleague Hmm. sure. so they're both feeling kind of stuck and wanting to change, just like get a change of scenery, so they do this home swap, which most people don't know that that home swap site is actually a legitimate website. People do do that, and there's new ones that have popped up since then. But both of them dared to imagine a life that could be different, and they did something that was wildly radical. And that is, if that's not me to a T, I don't know what is. It's so you. You've been living this life like legitimately living this life. have been living Yeah this way. Yes, I have been, I have been running a business from all over the world, like literally. I was talking to my brother, so I was doing this lovely house sit in the south of France over Christmas. I was there for… I was at the house for three weeks. My house sit was about two weeks, and I had, like, stayed there extra at the, the host's invitation a few days before and a few days after, and they're just such a lovely couple. I can't wait to go back next year. but I was talking to him about what I was, what I was doing, and he's like,"Oh my gosh, is this what it looks like when somebody secretly wins the lottery?" Like, I was like, "Um, no." A, a lot of people seem to think that I am just rolling in it because I am doing this big, fantastic travel life. Like, they're not seeing the unglamorous parts where I… Like, there was a point last fall when I was on a train to Budapest, and I knew that I was going to Budapest. I had my train ticket, and that, for that entire seven hours, I had no idea what the fuck I was gonna do when I got to Budapest because I had no money. And while I was on the train, of my clients was like, "Hey, can you send me an invoice for this? I think we've, I think we've hit this milestone." I was like, "Absolutely. I sure can." And I sent it, and she paid it immediately, and it was just like, ah, I can exhale. So the feast or famine cycle that I have been living in with my business didn't go away just because I'm somewhere else. In fact, it's it is even more acute because you can't, like, show up and crash on a friend's couch if you don't have a place to stay. You're like, literally where, where there's nowhere. But there's a, a deep amount of trust that's required in that Yeah. because I have not had to sleep in a train station. I have not had to, like, do anything terribly desperate. I did break the law a little bit in France and Spain getting to Barcelona, but, I didn't get caught, so that's the important lesson of that story. But like, th- there's a lot of trust in that. Everything showed up exactly what I needed right on time, and it's still stressful as fuck, and that's, that is running a business. It is. I love that you just kinda like raised the stakes now. You're like, "Yeah, and I think also I'll take away like the stable office." I mean, I don't have, I don't… Like, people don't know that I have all of my stuff in storage. So, like, the two bills that I absolutely have to pay every single month are my storage unit and my phone bill. Other than that, like, I sold my car, so I don't have car insurance. I don't have a car payment. I don't have, don't have these r- typical expenses that you have. And so I've basically been able to say, "Okay, here's how much money I was making and spending on living and eating. That's how much money I can afford to go live and eat someplace Yeah. Yeah. And you're It's, it's a money management. It's such a beautiful segue into how your business pays for your life. You by far have the most nomadic experience out of all the guests this season, and I love that you have it to give us this, like, range, this picture of what can be done when your business legitimately pays for your life. Um, I wanna know for you, I've asked everybody the same question, at what point did you realize that your business was paying for your life? Um, it was pretty quickly. So I don't know how many of your listeners know me and my story, but I'm a solo parent. I, daughter is now 20 years old, and I spent, I have spent 15 of those 20 years completely doing it by myself, um, minus the five, five years there somewhere in the middle with, um… Her father decided to show up and, and be very abusive, and then he went away. So, I ended up losing my job in the end of 2017, and I was already thinking about starting another business. I had run a photography business for many years, and, um, when I got burned out on that, I went back to a corporate role, started at a marketing agency, and when I lost that job, I was ready to go start a new business. So I st- started a new business. I was working at a coffee shop. Um, and so I would go work three, four days a week at the coffee shop, and then I was just doing everything else in the margins. Then within about six months, I was able to quit working at the coffee shop'cause I was like, "I have enough work now that I don't need to, I don't need to here to have this supplemental income." And then we laughed because I ended up becoming really good friends with the owners. I was their first employee. And, um, and I, I gave my notice in May of 2018, and I worked my last shift in June of 2020 Wow. Wow And it was just kept asking if I could come back in and, and, and cover this, that, or the other shift. Um, and so we'd joke that that was like the longest notice period ever. Um, but I didn't, I didn't have to be working there. That was something that I chose to do because my business was, was supporting itself. Um, and it was supporting me and my daughter, and so it was critical to me, because at the same time that I was building this, I was also going through a massive custody battle, and I didn't have any room for error. I didn't have any room for, "Nope, sorry, can't pay rent this month. Um, I guess we're gonna just have to suck it up and deal with it. Nope, sorry, I can't buy groceries," right? Like, any misstep that I made would've been held against me, so I worked extra hard to make sure that we had everything that we needed. Was it always glamorous? No. Um, in 2019, I landed an awesome contract where I was making the most money I've ever made in my life, and my daughter, it was back to school, was kind of the… For the first year, I was like, "Get whatever you want. Get two pairs of Jordans if you want. I don't care. Um, you can have three, three back to school outfits instead of, um, going and getting this one cheap outfit that I can afford at the cheapest store that we can, we can do. And f- of course you can get the brand name, uh, markers and crayons. Like, you don't have to get the store brand," right? And, and I remember my daughter saying, she's like, "This new job you have is kinda baller, huh, Mom?" and so, like, we do have those, those highs and lows, for sure, but it was… did what I needed to do because I needed to be there for my kid. Like, that was my sole motivation, and being an entrepreneur gave me the most flexibility be able to be a solo parent Yeah. I love that you're a hustler. You're always willing to do what you have to do, and you and I talk about this offline a lot, too. And before we hit record, we were also talking about how we're in crunchy economic times, and this note has come up in other interviews with other guests this season, which is, like, I'm never too proud to take the job that's gonna pay the bills if the most ideal client or the most ideal contract isn't here in this moment. And I really wanna normalize that because I think some people think that they're not making it or that their business isn't paying for their life or they're not on the right track because they get a bridge job or they take a contract that's like, "Oh, well, I used to do this, and I don't do this now," or whatever. And it's like sometimes if, if you have to pay your rent, your mortgage, whatever, like food is due on the table, and the luxury of, oh, only wait for your ideal client is such a privileged thing to be able to do. And that's usually my number one sign that somebody doesn't actually support their life with their business if they're like, "Oh, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll only, like, charge this," or, "I'll only work with these people, and if not, then nothing." And I'm like, "How are you paying for your bills?" The, one of the, the worst pieces of business advice that I ever got was from a business coach that I hired that I thought that it was genius at the time. And then I came to realize that was wrong. And, it was, you know, if you're, if you're busy with, with filling, uh, making plan B, then plan A can never happen, right? And so it's this idea that, like, if I'm focused on something that's not my main goal, then there's no room for my main goal. That's bullshit. Because if I am so worried about being able to put food on the table, or keep a roof over my head, or put gas in my car, which I have been in that space many times in my life, I can't focus on M There's no way that I'm going to deliver for my ideal client in the way that they deserve if I c- if I'm worried about how I'm gonna pay the bills Exactly so, no, it, taking plan B, taking that side gig, taking the work that you get paid for that's not ideal, is what's going to allow you to be better at the thing that you really wanna be doing, and it gives you breathing room. Because now you're not saying yes out of desperation makes total sense why you chose The Holiday as your movie, at least for this episode, because that's kind of what they're doing in this movie. Like, arguably both characters are, both main characters are, you know, successful in their own rights, and they go and choose a plan B to fill a void in their lives. In their cases, it's not money, it's a happiness factor. And, and they, but they, they go away, like they have a hero's journey. They go away, and they go figure this out to fill the main cup back up. And I, I just, I, I love that. Like, I can see that through line from why you chose The Holiday and what we're talking about right now. I talk about this all the time with creativity. Like, sometimes you just have to step away from the thing to be re-inspired, right? So both of them stepped out of their real lives, and then they both ended up discovering what they needed to discover because they weren't trying to force it. They weren't trying, you know, like wh- when it comes to writing and speaking, it's like, okay, put that away for a second and go do something else. Take a walk, color, take a pottery class. Um, do something else that fills your creative cup, and I promise you the ideas will flow It, it's so true though. Um, I mean, speaking of all of this work, do you feel like you work more than some of your peers? I definitely don't. Good for you. Like I honestly, I, I got accustomed years ago to working four or five-hour days. every now and again, I will hit like a deep hyperfocus, I can put in a 12 or 16-hour day and not blink twice. I have learned how to put more space into my day. Um, today is a weird exception. I have a lot of stuff stacked together, but usually I have like cushion. Um, there's ease. When I was in Europe, it was like recognizing that they're not in a hurry for anything 'cause they know that it'll still be there. Like, that was the one thing… I did my solstice ritual, that I was like, "This is the one thing I wanna take back, is that I'm not gonna be in a hurry to get stuff. I'm not gonna pack my schedule tight." And it's amazing when I have ease and cushion in my days how much more I can get done, because I can sit down, and instead of a 12-hour deep focus, I can knock some shit out in like three or four hours of just like blinders on, ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch. Okay, done. And then I go take a nap, and it's great. I love that So I think, like I also wanna bust the myth around like this, like yes, we hustle, we don't have to grind ourselves to burnout be Do you feel like spending more time not on American soil has helped you maybe find better focus? Because, um, like this is a common thing, right? And, and when you're on American soil, you kinda have to adapt to what Americans are demanding of you. Um, like I know you've also spent quite a bit of time over in Britain too, and, you know, English culture can be very similar to American culture in that sort of time ba- based grind. Um, but mainland Europe is not. It's siestas and we'll get to it when we get to it, and somehow everything still gets done Everything still gets done. Yeah, it's, it's wild. Like, I went to visit my friend who lives in Naples and, um, she, she and I have known each other for, gosh, 20 years now, which is wild. Um, but, uh, you know, we went for lunch, and our lunch was two hours, and she had stopped at the pharmacy to pick me up some drugs 'cause I was having some incredible knee pain. And she's like, "Yeah, I stopped 'cause I know that the pharmacy's gonna be closed for siesta by the time we get done Hmm.

lunch." And I was like, "It's 11: 18:46

30. Like, what?" You know.

And so, and sure enough, like, 2: 18:50

00 we rolled out of lunch and everything that had been open when we walked down there was all shuttered and siesta. And I was like, "Oh, okay. This is nice." Like, the whole town quieted down. Like, I was staying right off of a very busy street, and even that, it was like we had two, two mornings almost. It was really beautiful. And I took my nap, and I got up, and I was able to get stuff done. It was like, "Oh, this is lovely." yeah, everything still gets done. That was one of the lessons I learned when I was at the farm, was it was like I'm so used to American farm culture of you get up at the crack of dawn, you take care of the horses, you feed everybody, you muck the stalls. You do all of these things before you have even had your own coffee or breakfast. And then you, like, get quick breakfast and then hop on the school bus to go to school. And I w- I was almost itchy. Like, "When are we gonna go?" And she's like, "It's fine. It'll get done. We, we don't have to do that until we're ready to bring the horses in, you know? And so, like, they know it's gonna take this amount of time. We have all this time to do it. I'll start it when I'm ready, and right now is not that time." You're making a very good case for packing up bags and and going overseas. Yeah. I would not be surprised to hear you one day tell me, "So I'm just gonna stay here." And I'll be like, "Great, now I know who I'm gonna go visit." I, that's probably going to happen at some point. Your friend Gareth Yeah me to, we had a call and like he, he is all like, "I want to help Yes. And I'm like, "Okay, I will get I love Gareth so much. I need to get him on a future episode for something. But he and I met at a past, um, ConvertKit conference, and he's just been such a great business friend and, um, I love watching him and his family, like, reestablish their lives over there. Yeah, yeah. Um, all right. I want to know, because you are traveling, um, this might be a little different for you, but I've been asking everybody the same question, what they currently pay for health insurance each month and how it infl- influences your business decisions. Because I'm trying to feel better about my healthcare premium. Um, but you travel a lot. What do you do for healthcare? Ooh, that's a fun one. I don't have any. Well, that's one less bill. I was on an ACA plan for a long time that was quite affordable, although I'd learned any time I tried to use it that it didn't cover anything. it was whenever the UnitedHealthcare CEO got murdered. Um, like, the week after that, my UnitedHealthcare, I got a notice that my premium was going from $20 a month to $589 a month, and I was like, "What?" yeah, I'm not paying that for what I'm… Like, if it's the same plan, hell no. So what I've been doing is, um, getting medical care when I'm out of the country, because I can pay out of pocket, and it's so Yeah. Yeah Like, I was in Portugal over in December. I was so sick, and, you know, one of the things they have in Europe is they have the pharmacy, and you go in and see the pharmacist and tell them what's going on, and then they give you drugs. They tell you what you need. Like, the, the, um, in the UK they have, like, a desk nurse, in some places in France they had that as well, that would just see you. You didn't pay extra for that. They would just do just a brief exam, and then they'd be like, "Okay, here's the medications that you need." one of the things that I plan to do when I go back in August is get my eyes checked, because I can get those done for so much cheaper, and I'm, like, so behind on getting my eye prescription updated. It's not even funny. but yeah, it's like I pay for the, I pay for the insurance, the, like, traveler's insurance when I enter a country that allows me to access their system, and it's, like, $75. That is so affordable. Man, you are, you are just stacking up a story here for why maybe everyone should just have a little trip over here. I mean, I am rolling the dice for sure. Don't get me wrong, 'cause like I hope nothing catastrophic happens. But I also know that if something catastrophic happens and I'm in Europe, I feel way better about it Than here, yeah. than Ooh, what does that say about American systems? My goodness. speaking of different systems that we live in, um, what do you think you've given up in order to build a business that fully supports your life? Or do you feel like you've given anything up at all? I feel like I've given up a lot. Um, the big one being, like, I love having friends like you because you get it. I feel like it's not… I don't- it's not even all my entrepreneur friends understand the stress, which I, I love that you're focusing on this season, of those of us who don't have the safety net, right? Because it's a different kind of entrepreneurship. It's a different kind of showing up when you're solely responsible for paying the bills and making sure that they get paid and that the money comes in. and I feel like I have a lot of in my life who don't get it, and it's always,"Well, why don't you just go do this? Why don't you just…" And the, for me, that just pisses me off so much 'cause as you know, I'm such a victim's advocate and a Yep that that is, like, hardcore victim Yes And it's like, no, I, I chose this life. I knew that it was going to be hard, and what I want isn't you telling me that I'm failing. I want support of like, "Okay, great. What can I do?" Like, there's nothing that makes me happier than when my friends wanna hire Hmm. Mm-hmm. That to me is the greatest vote of confidence. Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of friends that want me to work for Hmm. and that frustrates the heck out of me because it's like, no, you can't pick my No You're, you're literally asking me to do the thing that Yes. people Yes. for. And I love that because it's like, okay, you trust me, you know my work, and you see the value in it Yes, just because we're friends and you have the proximity doesn't mean that I'm just here for you to just siphon off of. I, I do wonder, like, do you think that this is a symptom of us being women? Like, do you think that male entrepreneurs get the same kind of,"Well, why don't you just…" You know? I feel like the victim-blaming is really harsh on women in particular, but what do you think? Yeah, you're probably right. I don't know, 'cause I'm not a dude. They probably don't get the same pushback though, because like I feel like, especially when you look at how underfunded women are, I feel like there's a lot of male entrepreneurs that will go into spaces and they'll be talking about this, that, or the other thing, and people are like practically handing them Mm-hmm. Like, "Oh yeah, that sounds great. Here's some Mm-hmm. And they don't have any proof of concept, they don't have any real plan. Like, the, the fact that we have so many industries that are just held up on promises Speculation, gambling, the venture capital community. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah. It's like, that's wild to me, where women can come in and be like, "Here's my 27-point plan. This is exactly what I'm gonna do. Here's how we're Mm-hmm. um, make revenue," da, da, da, da, da, and they still can't get funded. Like, what the heck? so yeah, I do think that there's, there's some of that going on for sure. But I also just think that, like There are s- I still think there's certain types of entrepreneurs, and I'm gonna say, like, the service-based businesses that just aren't seen as legitimate the same way that a brick-and-mortar business or somebody who has a product base like CPG, right? Like, if you have something to Yeah I feel like those kinds of businesses get taken more seriously. Like, the number of grant applications that I've filled out that they Hmm. I, like, I still need to work on telling the story of my business and why it's important. That's definitely something that I'm doing. But I also feel like it's a, miss. Like, my best opportunity to get funding is through, like, literary grants or resid- writing residencies, We could have an entire podcast, like, season all on Mary getting on her soapbox about grants and grant funding. But I can tell you that since I got the keys to my brick and mortar, which you were there when I first got my keys, and you were visiting through, passing through town, and you were watching me set that thing up. And there is a legitimacy factor that has shifted in conversations that I have with people when they're like,"Oh, you have a physical address, and it's not just virtual anymore." And, um, it, it doesn't necessarily mean that the business comes in easier. I still struggle with, um, sort of that friend proximity in the networking space where they're like, "Oh, you have a studio?" And they're like, "Oh, can I come by?" And then people wanna have a coffee chat, and they really just want free coaching. And so, like, putting up the boundaries is still had to be a thing, but there is something about having a… keys to a brick and mortar, and it has been wild. Absolutely wild. I'm like, how is it more legitimate now when I have been producing podcasts and helping people behind the scenes for, like, a decade? And, and now that I have keys to a space, now it's real to you? It just, it blows my mind. So yeah, I, I feel you on that. For me, there's also, like, this identity crisis that I find myself in of, like, how do I brand myself to where people get it, um, and they understand what I do? Because that's been, that's been a big part of the, the whole story is like, okay, what is it that resonates with people? Like lately I've been saying I'm a narrative strategist. Like storytelling, but storytelling is overused now, right? When I talk to people about narrative, that all of a sudden opened my doors, right? I got to work on a political campaign this cycle, which I never would've chosen for myself, but she's like, "No, I need you to help me with the narrative." Like, campaign strategy, I've got somebody for that, but, like, what is the story that we're Yeah, yeah. And we won, so Exciting. I love it. Um, when do you feel like the, was the last time that you genuinely felt the weight of knowing that all of this was on you? I feel that every single day especially the days when my bank account's a little lower than others, I'm trying to figure out, like, how am I gonna pay for these things? Like, when I get the notices of like,"Hey, that, that payment didn't go through," or, "This payment didn't go through." And it's like, "Oh, cool, cool. on. Let me see what I can do to bring in some quick money." th- that's when the feeling of knowing that it's just me is very acute and also, a very, very pressure-filled time at the moment. I, I don't think anyone in this entire season has expressed that right now is super easy. Not that it's ever super easy, but right now is particularly not super easy. w- what do you feel is easier now that your business does pay for your life? well, living the life that I wanna live, that's easier because I get to make the decisions. Like, I was on Tory and Ashlan's podcast a couple months ago, and I was talking about, like, I got… I have gotten to do this full-time travel life. I've been doing it for about 18 months now, and it- it's not easy, but it's not, also not something that I just decided to do and it just happened. I wrote this down as something that was a goal of mine in 2016. In San… I was in San Francisco. I was at a Danielle Laporte event. Don't judge me. She wasn't that crazy then, or we hadn't realized how crazy she was. Um, but, like, it was January, and I wrote it in the beginning of my 2016 planner, like, "This is my goal, that I wanna do this within the next five years." It took me a little longer than five years, but I made a lot of decisions in my business that allowed me to be able to do this. So now I talk to clients, and I'm like,"Listen, I am not in a static place. I'm traveling the world. I need you to be okay with the fact that sometimes I'm gonna be working from out of the country and on a different Hmm. And we have those conversations before we ever sign contracts so that the expectations are there. I'm asking for that flexibility. Nobody owes that to me, but people wanna work with me well enough that they're willing to give it to me. So that was very intentionally designed. And so all of the decisions that I make in my business are around that question of how does this support the life that I want to be living, and if it… And going back to sometimes you just need to pay the bills, yes, and if there's work that is available that's not supporting the life that I want to live, like, that it would require me to come back and show up in an office or be on a very specific rigid schedule, that's, uh, that's not supportive to me, and it's not a good fit, and I know I'm not gonna be happy even if it's bringing money in. So it's m- being more discerning about the opportunities that are in front of me, and how do those support the life that I Yeah. I love the phrase, like, "I'm entirely unemployable now," because I'm like,"Yes, I am entirely unemployable now."

Uh, you're not getting me at 8: 32:34

00 AM No, no. Like, there are some things where, you know, you show up because whatever you're doing, like, you wanna be there.

It's one thing to be there at 8: 32:45

00 in the morning or earlier because, like, you… It's, like, your dream client or the project needs you to be doing something at that hour, and you're like, "Yes, I wanna do it." But it's an entirely other thing when somebody else is like, "I need you to be here because we want you to be here," and it's like, "Yeah, no, I can't. I can't." I have no problem showing up for CreativeMornings once a month at Yes. No problem. I love that that's the one exception. That's awesome. Um, do… I actually won a T-shirt at the Portsmouth chapter that says we love morning people, and my daughter thinks it's hilarious 'cause You're not a…"But you're not a morning person, Mom." Oh my God, now I need to see you wearing that T-shirt more often. Do you have any business expenses that nobody warned you about? this is the one that I feel like we end up not talking about as business owners, is the shiny penny syndrome of the new software, the new tool, the new this, the new that. Like, I will go to conferences and sign up for shit, and be like, "Oh, yeah, I need this CRM. Oh, yeah, I need this, um, this other thing that I can put on my Instagram so it automatically… It's automating." I used to be the automation queen. That's what I did for work. Um, I love all that stuff, but I sat down and started paying attention to, oh, well, it's only $12 a month. Well, when you have five different platforms that you're paying$12 a month, that's $60 a month. over $600 a year that you're spending on stuff, most of the time, we don't need it. We're not ready for it yet. Like, I am still a one-person show. don't need… Like, I'm not worried about having so much volume that I have to and that I won't be able to, like, respond. why am I paying for automation s- services that I don't need yet? the one thing. I think those are the hidden costs that people don't talk about enough, because everybody's like, "Oh, you gotta have this, you gotta have that." I was paying, like… was paying for so many tools that I used maybe once or twice, Hmm. but I was still paying for them, and it wasn't until I did my tech stack audit that I was like, "Holy shit, I'm spending, like, two or $300 a month on software that I'm not even Yes. Oh my God, I wish more people would talk about this, and I love that you brought it up. When I was still systems coaching, the first thing that I would have everybody do is an inventory or an audit of all the things you're paying for, including your courses, including your memberships. Because y- like, cash flow is something you need in your business, and at some point you do need to pay for something. And then people will be like, "Oh, I don't have any money." And it's like, yeah, you don't have any money because you're shelling out $600, $1,000 a year on a thing that you've used once or twice. M- my favorite story of all time was, um, a member of my mastermind in its very, very early days, and after doing that audit, she somehow had managed to sign up for two lifetime subscriptions of ConvertKit, and even they didn't know how she did it. And so she had to talk to them and get it reversed. And she had never sent one email ever, and it was like, "Mm, maybe not right now. Maybe not right now." Well, and like the, if I went back and looked at the amount of money that I've spent for courses that I've never finished or Yeah. started It's incredible. That I don't have access Yeah. Yep. It's ridiculous. Like, and those are, those are decisions that I tend to make in one of two spaces. One, I'm feeling stuck and I think that I need another course to teach me what's going on instead of just getting in and doing the work. Or two, I'm rolling in the dough and I'm like, "Oh, I can finally afford that thing that I've been wanting to Yeah. Yeah And neither of those are good places to make business decisions, especially when it comes to how you're No, but I really love that you bring up, you know, being a solopreneur and running a tight company of one and having a really curated client list. You don't need to automate as many things as you think, think you need to automate. And I think that, you know, for l- h- honestly, it's the entrepreneur celebrity grifter influencer culture that has people thinking that, "Oh, I'm gonna grow to, like, a million followers, and I'm gonna need to automate everything." And it's like, girl, you've got two subscribers on your list right now. You don't need to automate anything. Just email them. Just send them a normal email. Like, it's fine. Yeah. Yeah. I have 132 people on my email Mm-hmm. That is a you have 10,000 people on your Yes. Yes Like, let's focus on getting the other 9,000 however many Yes on the list, and then we can talk about those, building to Yeah. Yeah. Well, speaking of, um, cash flow and tools, if your business suddenly lost 50% of its revenue tomorrow, what would you do first? well, I would go back to, and this is actually, I had to do this back in Mar- in March and May, was I, lost actually 100% of my revenue because all of my contracts ended, like all at the same time, and one of them was not expected. But, um, I went back to what is it that I already have that I've already built that people like that I can keep Mm-hmm. Like, let me get back into the muscle. I had actually fallen off of my weekly email for about four months when I got back to the States. Like, re-entry was hard. and so I was like, "Let me just start sending my weekly email again. Let me put together a workshop that I can, that I can put out, and I'm gonna base it off of this pitch guide that I already have written." Like, I'm not gonna rewrite… Like, I'm not gonna start something new. I'm gonna go back to something old that people enjoyed, and how can I leverage that now into something different? And so it wasn't me trying to launch something new. It was going back to my old ideas and being like, "Okay, what can I bring forward right now?" Yeah. Yeah, because those are probably your strengths. what do you think that many entrepreneurs misunderstand about becoming fully self-supporting in their businesses? Ooh, that's a good question. I think one of the things that so many of them misunderstand is how quickly money actually comes. Like, when you don't have that safety net and you need money, like, tomorrow, this… I was, I've been binging The Awkward Handshake while I've been walking the dog. So, um, I was just listening to the, the episode about, like, when you show up to a networking event and you're thirsty, like, you're not closing business tomorrow. so I think one of the things that a lot of people do, and I actually, one of my first marketing jobs, like, this guy did not understand, is that when business is good, they stop doing the Yes And I'm guilty of this too, right? Like, they stop doing the activity that brought them business. They stop going to networking. They stop taking coffee meetings. I would love to have myself in a place where I'm booking out three, four months in advance have pe- like, people will wait for you if you're worth it. Um, and if they're not gonna wait for you, they're not your people, right? And so I need to still have that business development muscle exercised. Maybe I'm not, like… I'm totally gonna mess this up. My daughter is a lifter. But, like, I'm not working on gains right now. I'm just working on reps, right? Like, You still have to be exercising that muscle. You don't necessarily need to make it the strongest one that you have. But I feel like that's the piece that people seem to miss, is that the reason that we end up in these is because we stop doing the things that brought us business when we have business I love it. The, they, what's the, what's the saying? It's something like, "If you don't do any marketing now, pretty soon you're gonna have a lot of time for marketing." And I feel like that's the thing that people live through. Mm-hmm. that y- Well, and I'm guilty of it too. Yeah. I do I, I think we all fall into that trap, and then you learn, and then you rebuild. And I, you know, I really feel like that, that muscle of continuing all the business development, it, it's kind of like… I, I, like, flipped it in my mind. I started thinking of it like, what is the trend that I am seeing in the market? Like, if I need to know where the market is going so that I don't end up in a, like, complete zeroed-out slump, which has happened, and sometimes it is beyond your control and it happens. But, um, I, I go to the events. I might go to fewer of them, which is happening at the moment, but I will still make sure that I go to some to make sure that I'm just taking, like, a temperature of the room. Or I'll at least consume a lot of other people's content to take a temperature of the room, where I'm like, "Where, where is the, the school of fish currently swimming towards or against?" Like, where's the current? Like, what's going on here? And I don't know that you get that if you, you know, just, like, check out. And, but we've all checked out at some point, and then you learn it.

You're like, "Note to self: 42:18

don't check out again." Well, and I understand too that, like, when you have business, especially when you're a solo, like the, the two of us are, like, we are the ones that are producing the work addition to business development, in t- in addition to relationship capital, in addition to Yeah. blah, Yeah I, I understand that it can be really easy to get yourself, "But no, I just have to focus and get Mm-hmm. so that I can bill it." But, uh, one of the things that I've learned from tracking my time is that I often work towards these false deadlines that I've made for myself that aren't actually what my clients are Yeah and I'm like, "I don't have time for that," when I look at and I'm like, "Oh, no, I totally could go to that event because this isn't really actually due tomorrow. Like, I just decided it was due Yeah. That is so true. Well, you and I love talking about, um, things like codependency and coercive control and all kinds of things, so I think you're gonna love one of… This is one of our final questions. What are business programs, coaches, and communities not talking about enough that keeps people stuck in dependency patterns? The fact that they are dependency machines, I also was listening to Tonya Kubo's Yes. um, Find Your Yeah and she was, it was the one, the episode with Gwen Bortner, and then the Yeah. to that about Mm-hmm. And it, she was talking a lot about the codependent patterns that so many of these communities build. And I just couldn't help but think about all of the communities that I have been in, Hmm. it was a whole bunch of people who needed a nanny. Like, they needed a business nanny. they signed up for Yeah And it was just this, like, constant, like, everybody was leeching out of everybody, nobody was actually contributing anything. And then the community would shut down because the person who was running it would have no capacity to, like, hold all that space for that, all those people. then would be like, "Oh, what am I gonna do now?" And it's like, "Oh my gosh, put your big girl panties on and just Hmm. Yeah. Yeah Like, I think that's, like, don't need another coaching program. You don't need another community. Take the ones that you've invested your time and s- effort in, and just do the work. Like, what you have learned. And if there's still, after you've done that, if there's still skills or gaps, like, those are so much easier to see once you've actually started to do the work. But, like, so many of these programs are designed to keep you in a codependent pattern, and, like, they won't talk about that because they're happy taking your money. I also find that those environments are, as our friend Julie has said, the commodification of friendship. They have commodified it. And those are also usually the spaces where the people in those spaces, their business does not pay for their life. And, you know, when you're trying to really build something sustainable, it is hard to get answers, and you don't find the right collaborators because you're in the wrong pond, and it's probably time to get out. One of our last questions. What's the bill that you're weirdly proud to pay? I mean, I don't know, I know that you don't have a lot of bills right now. But what's something that you're super proud to pay right now? Um, I mean, do plane tickets count as a bill? I don't I th- I think for you they do. I think for you they do, you know? Yeah. Well, there's that. Although it's funny, so one of the ways that I've been able to travel is by, because I've been, um, house sitting through Trusted House Sitters, so I have a membership through there, and that's an annual membership. Although I've referred so many people that I haven't had to pay for it in over a year, and I may not even have to pay for it this year. That's amazing. That's amazing So, um, that, that one's like sweat equity. But yeah, no, I love, I mean, I love being able to book the flights and stay in the places that I wanna stay in. Like, there's nothing that gives me greater joy than booking flights. That's, you know what? That's, that's a worthy bill for you. All right, we're finishing out every episode with a little Mad Libs game, so I'm gonna have you fill in the blank on this sentence. The sentence is, "My business pays for my life, and that means," fill in the blank that means that I'm living the life that I designed. Like, that's, that's the part that makes me so happy, is that I am happy. Like, you have noticed it, so many of my friends have noticed it."Eunice, you're so much happier now." Well, yeah, because I am literally living out the dream that I had, and my business allows me to do that It is so powerful. Oh my gosh. I am so glad that you came on this season. I know that you will definitely be back around again in the future on whatever else I choose to do on a recorded microphone. Um, but I'm gonna remind everybody to go to the show notes, go check out your work, click the links, subscribe to your email newsletter at minimum, but…'cause they're so good. But also, you know, somebody who needs help figuring out their story, like, you are definitely their person, and, um, and, and you would, you would do good justice to those stories. I've seen what you've done with other people, and I'm just excited that people get to, like, hear about the infrastructure behind all of that, which is so important It's so much fun. And also, like, my email newsletter is inspired by you, right? Um, of how do we look at TV and movies? Um, and for me, it's not really pulling the business lessons out, although we could do that, but it's, it's looking at the craft behind it and, like, why does this story work? then how can you take what they did and apply it to your own stories make them more Yeah, I feel like people are really looking at, for how to differentiate themselves in the new age of AI because people are pumping out so much stuff so quickly, and, um, just really don't… It doesn't need to be like that. We need human things, and you help people be more human. So thank you. Thank you for lending your wisdom to us today. Thank you for having me back on the podcast. I'm, uh, I always love getting on the mic with you 'cause I never know I know happen. That's it for this episode of the School of Moxie podcast. This season was produced and edited by me, Mary Williams, through Sensible Woo and now Sasquatch Media Grounds out of Vancouver, Washington. If you're a business owner and you want help building your own media engine, maybe it's your podcast, your YouTube channel, your content, the whole visibility machine, come and subscribe to my emails at sensiblewoo.com/subscribe. I'll show you how it's done, and I'll hook you up with the good stuff. See you on the inside